Thursday, 29 December 2011

  • Believing in Hell: A Short Quiz

    Originally posted December 28, 2011 @ 10:31 PM.

    Adapted from the book, "Erasing Hell" by Francis Chan & Preston Sprinkle, page 21-22

    Fill in the blank (select one answer):

    __________ believe in a God who shows His power by punishing non-Christians in Hell at the End of Time and who magnifies His mercy by blessing Christians forever in Heaven through faith in Christ?

    A) Do you want to...
    B) Could you...

    Class is now in session. Begin! (No peeking.)

Comments (29)

  • MrTrololo

    B and yes. I would have added a C) All True Christians should... *scribbles in pencil* lol ;)

  • NaitoOfNarnia

    @Happily_Married_Guy - Too true. And one would

    think

     that Christians would. The Bible is pretty clear on that. We don't need extensive degrees in Biblical studies to gather that much. (And I'll not dock you points for editing the quiz. LOL)

  • plantinthewindow

    A)  No.  I don't want to.  Not anymore.

    B)  I could if it seemed reasonable at all.  But since were being asked to use reason, no, I couldn't.

    But a truly committed Christian would, if they were sold on the faith.  This is the crux of what sets Christianity apart from other faiths.  Not just the love of God, but the promise of God to punish non-Christians eternally in hell.

  • NaitoOfNarnia

    @plantinthewindow - What seems so unreasonable about it?

  • plantinthewindow

    @NaitoOfNarnia - love.  what seems unreasonable is loving all of your creation, but sending 99.9 % of everyone who has ever lived in the history of the earth, to burn eternally in hell.  and knowing they are there for eternity.  they ones you created and love are there burning and you love them.  that's all.

    but I'm not a Christian, so I'm not sold on it all.

  • TheThinkingPerson

    A. No. Anybody that cruel and horrible is something I'm glad doesn't exist.

    B. If all evidence pointed to his existence, yes.

  • NaitoOfNarnia

    @plantinthewindow - I understand the seeming contradiction you express.
    But see, God warned us from the start what would happen. He loved us and warned us so that we could make a wise choice.


    It's curious that you mention love, though. For while God never stopped loving us, He also created us so that we would freely love Him back. And we chose not to. Without a mutual loving relationship, there can be no relationship at all. And God has warned us that there WILL be a time when there will be no other chances. He warned us so that we could choose Him and live. It's because He loves us that we were warned at all. He doesn't want us to die in Hell. But He has to allow us that choice or else the relationship would be nothing. Robots without even artificial A.I. is what we would be. We could never love Him in that condition. So He MUST allow us the possibility of Hell.
  • NaitoOfNarnia

    @TheThinkingPerson - You don't see any evidence for God's existence?
    And how do you assume that God is cruel?


    Could it be that the thought that anyone could and would go to Hell is simply the product and consequence of disobeying God?
    After all, in countless parts throughout Scripture, God tells us that if we simply obeyed Him, we'd have LIFE! So why does it seem cruel that the opposite - Hell - would be a reality for the disobedient?
  • TheThinkingPerson

    @NaitoOfNarnia - If obeying him involves believing in something that I think is irrational, illogical, and utterly absurd and going to hell if I don't, yes, I think that's cruel. And to be blunt, I think it's a really shitty way to determine worthiness for heaven.

    Consider: An atheist devotes his life to helping the poor. He goes to hell. A man goes on a serial spree and converts to Christianity the night before he is executed. He goes to heaven.

    I consider the qualifier for going to heaven to be really unfair.

  • plantinthewindow

    @NaitoOfNarnia - yes.  I know the story.  I was raised in Pentecostal Christianity from the day I was born, accepted Christ at age seven, until several years ago when I finally stepped out of the way.  Some forty years or so.  I understand where you're coming from, and I appreciate your message and caring.

  • NaitoOfNarnia

    @TheThinkingPerson - If that's how the case really was, I'd totally agree with you. It would suck, entirely. But, see, that's what Jesus died for. Because, regardless of the good or bad we've done...none of that is important (not in the End). The reason being because we've all fallen short of God's perfect standard. It's not about the amount of good we've done, but if we'd lived perfectly. Clearly, we have not. None of us.

    Because Jesus did live perfectly, He paid that price that we deserve. ALL of us deserve Hell. In God's grace and mercy, God transferred our punishment onto Christ and, if we accept Him as Lord and follow His leading, gives us His perfection. It's basically a direct trade.

    This is why the Bible makes it clear that we do not go to Heaven based on our works. I explain why here...you should check it out if you like. Are you sure that such a trade is illogical and irrational? We owe a debt that we cannot pay, and Jesus pays the debt for us so that we may live.
    None of us are worthy of Heaven. So that's not in question. But God's love for us is unending, and that's evident through Christ's sacrifice. Wouldn't you say?

  • NaitoOfNarnia

    @plantinthewindow - May I ask, then, if you know the story, why you find such a serious matter - a potential reality - so cruel if it's really just the consequences of our own faulty life?
    Perhaps it would be better if I asked... What led you to leave Jesus?

  • plantinthewindow

    @NaitoOfNarnia - it's not really a big deal to me.  I left because I don't agree with the premise, and decided I don't believe in the whole thing, the whole scenario.  of course you know faith is believing what doesn't make sense to the mind, or what one has no proof of - so one has to have faith.  I understand that.  I just decided to use reason.  using reason, to me no religion makes any true sense.

    using reasonable thinking, I don't see it as a potential reality.  I think there is a spiritual realm.  I know plenty of people who have had various encounters that let me know that something is there.  we are spiritual, in physical bodies.  I think so.  but I don't believe it, I don't put my money on it because I can't prove it.  I simply love myself, love people, love life.  Eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.

  • NaitoOfNarnia

    @plantinthewindow - I would argue that there is tons of evidence for God and the truth of the Bible...but rather get onto that tangent, let me ask you this... Does belief make something true? Or is something true regardless of who believes it?

    I ask because I find that faith in God makes perfect sense (well, often enough times...there are definitely many moments when I'm totally lost about God)...buuuuut, only if we first understand what sort of faith we're talking about.


    You're right about us being spiritual. CS Lewis did say, "You are not a body. You are soul, you have a body."
    Tell me. Before our conversation here, could you ever prove that I existed? Prior to your knowledge of me, could you prove I was a real person?
  • plantinthewindow

    @NaitoOfNarnia - well, it's a matter of semantics, yes.  but, no, before I saw your post, I didn't know you existed.  and I didn't care.  now that I meet you, I know.  but you're presenting a belief system which doesn't make sense to me.  there may be a god.  whoever it is, it's possible that he/she/they/it is just as Christianity presents.  if this is so, I don't consider it a god worth worshiping or serving.  for basically the same reasoning I've already discussed.  I do consider that there may be many god-like beings who exist out there.  perhaps innumerable ones.  but one who describes himself as having human emotions such as anger, or jealousy, or causing one tribe of people to completely wipe-out another tribe of people - it may be what the being wanted to happen for it's own reasons, but it's not a god worth worshiping.  it's a being who does and feels what humans do and feel.  in my reasoning, that is.

  • NaitoOfNarnia

    @plantinthewindow - I think the key phrase is that all that you said is in your own reasoning.
    I think you also rather hit the nail on the head when you said that Christianity may very well be what it claims to be.
    My point being that belief doesn't define what is actually true. Belief should rest upon what really is true, though. I existed apart from your belief. Just as God does.
    Perhaps you can explain more...what exactly doesn't make sense about Christianity? What got you so lost about it?

  • MyTwoCentss

    While I don't like the idea of people going to hell for all eternity to suffer, I accept it.  If I choose not to believe that isn't going to magically make it untrue & nonexistent.  Besides, it isn't like I'm missing out on anything worthwhile by believing in God & the Bible & following them to the best of my ability.  To me, the things God prohibits in this life make sense to me usually.  I can see how not following them would have natural consequences & God is simply trying to save us hurt & heart ache of experiencing those consequences ourselves out of love.  I can see how the things he promotes, while sometimes they may not be our first choice of action, can enrich our lives & help us as people.  So I choose to have faith even through the times when I question things or wonder about it all. 

    Let me sum it up this way.  I see the promise God holds for those who love him.  I see there are no promises here on Earth with mankind, only more heartache & pain.  I'll take my chances & cast my lot with God.  I don't feel I can go wrong with that choice. 

  • AncoraImparo

    do some research on the original "hell" -- shoel.

  • mtngirlsouth

    I don't think it is about whether I "could" believe in a God Who created hell. Since Jesus spoke more of hell than He did of heaven, it looks like if I believe in Him, I must believe in hell. I guess it comes down to whether I *want* to know Christ as He is, or whether I *want* to make Christ into something I like better. The search for truth must not begin with boundaries. 

  • ShimmerBodyCream

    Give everyone a bunch of drugs and they won't be concerned with being evil and everyone will go to heaven!  

  • blonde_apocalypse

    This shows a fairly standard misunderstanding of Heaven and Hell, one that you will observe pretty commonly among people who claim to have studied the words of God their entire lives.  God never said he was going to "send" anyone to Hell or punish someone for failing to be Christian.  He described a place where people who don't know God spend their eternities and another place where people who pursue a knowledge of God spend their eternities.  It may sound like a subtle difference, but it isn't.  Read these two sentences and tell me the difference:

    1) Anyone who refuses to get on the train will be punished with an eternity at the station. 2) Anyone who fails to get on the train will be left at the station and will never get to where the train is going.  It's entirely up to you whether you get on the train or not, but, let me tell ya, the station really really sucks compared to where the train is going.

  • MrTrololo

    @mtngirlsouth - To me could I believe... is an important question because the answer is yes, I can. I can because the Bible tells me so, and I deem its contents trustworthy. Also if we can't it begs the question why, and is very revealing. Insofar as what I want, I deem that less relevant. Of course, I should want to know God as he is, but if I reject his words or their reliability, I won't want to.... pointing back to a pre-existing problem.

  • hectoramemnon

    It's amazing how much of a mess people can make out of what they think the Bible says. Justice and mercy are as mysterious as God's sovereignty and human free will.

  • firetyger

    I agree with blonde_apocalypse's assessment. God doesn't send anyone to hell...it is our own choice whether we will be left behind or if we will choose to follow God and go to heaven. We choose our destiny.

  • NaitoOfNarnia

    @MyTwoCentss - Makes perfect sense to me, and I agree.

    @AncoraImparo - *chuckles* It's funny that you suggest that, because I am actually doing a study on Hell. I'm writing an entire "book" on it. There are at least two types of "hell" in the Bible. One is, as you mentioned "sheol" (Hebrew) or "hades" (Greek), and refers to the grave, being physically dead. However, Jewish culture still held strong beliefs in a spiritual hell. Whether or not these beliefs were actually true or not, what we see is a common thread of belief in a spiritual hell, one that goes beyond the grave. Later, Jesus affirms much of these beliefs (much, but not all; for example some Jews leading up to Jesus' time believed that Hell ultimately meant absolute annihilation, but Jesus never supported that idea). As soon as my research is done, I plan on sharing my work here on Xanga. But that's going to take some time - I have at least three books to read and several web sites to scour, and other notes to go over. LOL
    @mtngirlsouth - You summed up Francis Chan's words pretty well, given that this little quiz I adapted from his book on the subject.
    @ShimmerBodyCream - Heh heh...boy, if it only it were that "simple". Sadly, the human heart (even the best of us) are misaligned in our thinking with selfish tendencies (and in God's book, even something like selfishness is evil because it, plan-and-simple, is not GOOD). But hey, hook me up with some cookies and caffeine and I'll do nothing worse than playful mischief! LOL
    @blonde_apocalypse - I see your point, and it's a valid one. Definitely. I would only momentarily argue that Scripture - Jesus to be exact - does talk about death, Satan, and the like all being THROWN into the Lake of Fire in the end. Maybe it's being nit-picky on words and translation, but there does appear to be a very intentional action on God's part. Especially considering that He is the one who administers the punishment if it is warranted per the individual.
    @Happily_Married_Guy - The difference between "want" and "could" very well stated.
    @hectoramemnon - Are you referring to my post, the comments made here, or in general?
  • Sign in to Comment

  • Give eProps (?)

Who recommended?