Friday, 26 March 2010

  • KARMA, Justice, & Grace - PART 1

    Originally posted March 21, 2010 @ 10:53 PM.

    Part One: KARMA --- Part Two: JUSTICE --- Part Three: GRACE

    karma in the pants There are many ideas that have been going on for centuries and more that try to explain why things happen. Many are simplistic and many are very complicated. But all attempt to grasp the notion that when we choose to do something - whether good or bad - there are consequences. Oddly enough, many have not failed to notice that even the most genuine of choices have seemed to result in far worse endings. Even stranger are the bad things done that have the reverse effects!

    Now, I won't claim that I can tell you why some things happen. I won't say "this" was the result of "that", end of story. It's not always so simple. While some things are quite obvious - if you stand out in the rain, you'll get wet - others are not always so easy to comprehend - why loving and firm-minded parents can still have a child who grows up to be bad and reckless. But what I hope to explain in this short series is how God intercedes for us both in the immediate and in the long-term. How things that ought to happen do not, and how things that should not have happened do sometimes happen anyway.

     "What goes around, comes around" is the stereotypical message of karma. Karma, despite having an assortment of fundamental differences in the schools of thoughts and religions that employ it, is the idea that for every good thought or action, there will be a good result returned to the individual, and so on for every bad choice. It's like a boomerang. Unless you just completely throw it into the ground, typically however you may throw it, it's going to come right back to you. (DUCK if you're not very good at catching things.)

    The general consensus behind all the different schools of thought (i.e.: Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, etc) is that "karma is not punishment or retribution but simply an extended expression or consequence of natural acts" [1]. (Although, Jainism does differ greatly on this in that karma is viewed more like the Force as mentioned by Qui-gon in Star Wars: Episode 1. Sort of.) Buddhism does take into account the motives behind the actions, but also makes a point to cite that ignorance can result in the opposite result than intended. And in Spiritism, the spirit, prior to reincarnation, can choose when to suffer for past wrongs.

    But in short, "karma is [the] action and Vipaka, fruit or result, is its reaction. Karma is a law in itself, which operates in its own field without the intervention of any external, independent ruling agency" [2]. "[Karma] more broadly names the universal principle of cause and effect. ... That is to say, a particular action now is not binding to some particular, pre-determined future experience or reaction; it is not a simple, one-to-one correspondence of reward or punishment. ... The conquest of karma lies in intelligent action and dispassionate response" [1]. Now, there is certainly a lot more to this topic, but where does this leave those of us who believe that there is more than some boomerang-Force of cause-and-effect in action?

    In the Bible, John tells of this story:
    As Jesus was walking along, He saw a man who had been blind from birth. "Rabbi," His disciples ask Him, "why was this man born blind? Was it because of his own sins or his parents' sin?" [3] HOLD THE PHONE! Isn't that interesting? Even the disciples way of thinking was similar to the idea that suffering is due to "bad karma". Someone - either the man or his parents - had sinned. Why else would the guy be blind? Jesus had a curious reply for them, though.
    "It was not because his sins or his parents' sins," Jesus answered. "This happened so the power of God could be seen in him. We must quickly carry out the tasks assigned us by the One who sent us. The night is coming, and then no one can work. But while I am here in the world, I am the light of the world."
    Then He spit on the ground, made mud with the saliva, and spread the mud over the blind man's eyes. He told him, "Go wash yourself in the pool of Siloam" (Siloam means "sent"). So the man went and washed and came back seeing! [3]

    Jesus' words must have sounded so odd. Up until that point, the idea that anyone would suffer needlessly was apparently absurd. If you didn't do anything wrong, why are bad things happening to people? Jesus' reply was that this was so God's power could be shown to them in as plain a moment as we can see the sun rising. If we really want to go back and find out why people suffer, we have to acknowledge the destructive power of sin running its course through all of humanity. In general, sin was to blame; specifically no one sinned so that that man had to be born blind. The disciples were looking for a direct cause that produced the related effect of blindness and Jesus was telling them, "There is none."

    So where does that leave us? If bad things can happen for no immediately obvious reason and it just happens to be so that God can somehow show us He's real, why does God not simply put up a big, tacky, 1970s neon sign and say, "Guess Who?!" instead of letting us suffer? To answer that, in part two of my series, I'm going to address the similar concept of justice. Stay tuned.

    Part One: KARMA --- Part Two: JUSTICE --- Part Three: GRACE

    SOURCES:
    [1] www.wikipida.org/wiki/karma
    [2] www.buddhanet.net
    [3] John 9:1-7 (NLT)

    OTHER SOURCES (unused):
    www.skepdic.com/karma.html
    The book of Job in the Bible

Comments (22)

  • highlandgypsy

    I can't wait for part 2. I am interested in how you chose this as a topic, what drove you to write about Karma? I have heard the story about the blind man but still to this day don't understand...I'm going to look forward to you helping me understand.

  • ccarothers

    This should be interesting!  I'm actually very curious.  :0)

  • umweirdithink
    Interesting. I like this. I attend a Grace preaching church and we have touched on some of these same issues. If you are interested on more thoughts of Grace & the Law check out my other blog justinprawat.blogspot.com
  • Gabor777

    I think that everyone will be subjected to something bad or unpleasant at some point in the future. Just because life is life only when mixed up with good and bad things.

  • Colorsofthenight

    Karma is only going to come back around if it's on your level and dealing with a small group of people and you are all the same in social status, financially and a few other things. 


    Everybody loves to see karma in action because that means that all the bad stuff that has happened to them now happens to the person or person-like.  Rarely, do people like to see good karma happen because it lowers them in some way shape or form. 


    I get hit with "karma" constantly from everyone for things I must have done in a past life or my parents' karma or the karma of my fruits - even when they do exist in numbers, or society's karma or a bunch of other things.


    If you've been hit with a bunch of karma, then you realize that even the wicked get worse than they deserve and kind'of discredit the whole argument. 


    God's dead.  We're waiting for someone to be reincarnate into his place.  He's going to have to be immortal and real magical, as I'm sure the original God was until Satan decided that he was more clever without immortality or magic and now we're here and we don't know why. 


    I prefer the Koran [Qu'ran]


    "It was not because his sins or his parents' sins," Jesus answered. "This happened so the power of God could be seen in him. We must quickly carry out the tasks assigned us by the One who sent us. The night is coming, and then no one can work. But while I am here in the world, I am the light of the world."
    Then He spit on the ground, made mud with the saliva, and spread the mud over the blind man's eyes. He told him, "Go wash yourself in the pool of Siloam" (Siloam means "sent"). So the man went and washed and came back seeing! [3]


    The Bible goes back on itself and presents so many arguments that it's gibberish.  Forgive.  Hell no!  If I'm spending my entire life paying for my parents, how are special after a little water?  God chose you and this ear infection that I have right now is just another display of His wrath.  I'm ready to talk to God in person.  Nobody there. 


    Well, I've never been baptized, so I guess I'll be like y'all and after I get to a comfortable life where everybody loves me because of my "value" as a human being, throw some water over myself and forget everything else.  You can even break out the oil and singing monks if you'd like. 

  • NaitoOfNarnia

    @ccarothers - Not sure if you noticed (I can't remember if you commented further), but I have the following two posts in the series up already, too. :)
    @Colorsofthenight - I'm going to have to be totally honest here: the vast majority of what you said maid little to no sense. There's hardly anything you said that's even logical, coherent or not mocking.
    As for your value, though. Your value as a human being is not diminished because of your mistakes. THIS life is the only life you have to worry about. You are an original creation; not a recycled life. God loves you now as He did before and always will. He's just waiting for you to stop being so stubborn and actually listen to wisdom.
    And for the record, I won't wait for you to accept Jesus before I'll show you respect and kindness.

  • NaitoOfNarnia

    @umweirdithink - I actually wrote a more comprehensive post about law vs grace here, too: L is for Law, G is for Grace. And if you didn't notice, this is part of a 3-part series, so I cover justice and grace, too. I'll have to check out your site in the near future.
    @Gabor777 - I agree. It's just the nature of things now because of the brokenness that sin brings about. A literal deterioration of the very fabric of creation, rather.

  • Colorsofthenight

    @NaitoOfNarnia - 




    Karma is only going to come back around if it's on your level and dealing with a small group of people and you are all the same in social status, financially and a few other things. 


    You are talking about karma as if it's absolute and everything will come back around eventually.  No, it doesn't Jan can get away with literal murder and Sam can't.  Sam is waiting for karma to get to Jan, but it isn't going to happen ever.


    Everybody loves to see karma in action because that means that all the bad stuff that has happened to them now happens to the person or person-like.  Rarely, do people like to see good karma happen because it lowers them in some way shape or form. 


    Jill was real successful and a boss, but in a turn of fate, she lost her job due to a car accident she was that fractured her face and her house and her marriage fell apart.  Everybody hates Jill and was thrilled to see that go down.  When Tom takes her place instead of you though, it doesn't seem fair.  That wasn't karma. 


    Or, a little more "humane"


    Jill was a bitch one day to Tom and her supervisor saw and fired her.  It turns out though that Jill's family life went down the gutter and she had a reaction from sleepdeprivation.  You don't know this, but you are sick of her getting all those promotions and also the way she snaps at you to do things.  Haha bitch, right?



     


    I get hit with "karma" constantly from everyone for things I must have done in a past life or my parents' karma or the karma of my fruits - even when they do exist in numbers, or society's karma or a bunch of other things.


    I'm Jill, except I'm not successful. People justify my misfortunes as karma for whatever. 


    If you've been hit with a bunch of karma, then you realize that even the wicked get worse than they deserve and kind'of discredit the whole argument. 


    Bad karma sucks. 


    Yeah, sure, bring me to God and Christ and I'll accept Him.  Other than that, no. 


    Yes, I'm mocking and I was stating facts about karma.  That's hardly illogical.  It wasn't woven into a masterpiece but I think I can infer what I'm saying. 


    The Koran makes more sense.  Please read. 

  • NaitoOfNarnia

    @Colorsofthenight - Nothing you said makes sense still. And I did my research on this topic. What you're saying about karma doesn't add up at all. And for the purpose of this post, I was talking solely about cause-effect consequences. Nothing else.
    I'm glad you could understand what you were saying, because you've totally lost me.
    And I wonder, have you read the Bible? Because I read it regularly, and I've never once ran across anything contradictory. And when I don't understand something, I research it...I usually find there was a bit of knowledge (like cultural or linguistic matters) that I didn't have before. And when I do find out that bit of info, things suddenly make sense. As for the Koran, I can only say that I've read snippets of it.
    Suffice to say, nothing in the Koran is worth giving up Jesus for. If I read the Koran, it will only be to find out what it says, not because I actually find anything worthwhile in it.

  • umweirdithink

    @NaitoOfNarnia - Yea, I am looking forward to reading the other two posts. When will they be up?

  • Colorsofthenight

    @NaitoOfNarnia - obviously you are set and can't think.  That's probably why you accept Jesus in a special way and thrust him onto other people in your special, absolute way. My opinion simply doesn't matter - not that it ever does.  I'm uneducated.  I'm stupid.  I'm not seeing the light.


    Welcome to growing up.  Please note how none of them said anything - go figure.  That wouldn't have benefitted them.  It's obvious that's who God serves.


    See, this has happened to me before when I accepted our Lord and Christ ,and then I realized that it was bad and would lead to more Hell on my end. 


    See, I assume that special people get thrust into church as a way to help their strange or bad lives - like a tutoring program.  It's obvious that most people who are there are at least part slave, whether they realize it or not.  And the containers are masters.  Some people claim it to use it to collect people, and this is the worst part because with ideology, they are going to suck you dry in many, many ways.


    You should read a variety of religious texts to both test your faith and gain a general knowledge of what other people believe so that you can agree to disagree with polite reason instead of absolute knowledge. 

  • soldiers_sweetheart_09

    I believe in Karma. I believe in the Threefold Law because I am a Witch. Several people don't understand Karma and I am glad you have the correct views on it.

  • NaitoOfNarnia

    @Colorsofthenight - When you can reply to me without insulting my intelligence, maybe we can have further discussions. But thanks for stopping by anyway, truly.
    @soldiers_sweetheart_09 - (I have a friend who is Wiccan...I'll have to ask her about the Threefold Law. It's not something I am familiar with even as a general bit of knowledge.) And I'm glad I was able to present an accurate view on the topic. I didn't do a whole lot of in-depth study on it, but I did try to get a solid grasp at the same time. There was a LOT of content and I had to try to boil it down to its bare essentials and also keep it from distracting from my main goal in this series (what you read here is just part one of three). Feel free to ask me more about my thoughts or browse my other entries if you like. :)

  • Colorsofthenight

    @NaitoOfNarnia - that's not what I meant. I meant that you are set in your opinion and aren't thinking about my opinion. You are being absolute in your view point.  You aren't even trying to understand what I'm actually saying. You focus in on something personal instead of thinking and you insulted me first then surround me with unconditional love and your opinion once again. 

  • NaitoOfNarnia

    @Colorsofthenight - Set in my opinion? I don't just simply spout off what I think is right. I do research and study my material very thoroughly. I did think about what you said - or, I tried to when your comments weren't completely contradictory or just confusing - but that doesn't mean I'm going to agree with you, either. And when did I insult you? Did I say anything mean to belittle you or show a lack of love? Hardly. Nothing I have said has been with the aim of attacking you. I have merely stated that most of what you have said here doesn't make sense. If you take offense to that, then that is your problem, I'm afraid, because nothing in my comments to you was unloving.

  • soldiers_sweetheart_09

    @NaitoOfNarnia - You did a good job. You did it in simpler terms than I could have put it :) But I can explain the Three-Fold Law to you right here, right now.  It relates to the use of power and energy, for when used, power is returned to the sender, three times the level it was sent out. that is why a Wiccan must always perform spells for good.

     
  • Colorsofthenight

    @NaitoOfNarnia - I'm not here to start a flame.  You said I was "illogical" and I said "set in your ways and can't think."  I didn't say you were stupid, did I?  No, I said can't think.  I do research too, and I've read several religious texts.  What's your point with that?


    I mumble to myself a lot, thus the first comment was a bit hazy, I'll admit.  Other than that, what I'm saying is right there in front of you.  How is it contradicting?


    Can we agree to disagree? 


    I only took it further because you did.  You don't want to discuss it, so why are we?

  • NaitoOfNarnia

    @Colorsofthenight - When you tell me that I can't think, what else do you expect me to take from that? From what you said before, I'm still having a difficult time following your logic.
    And I am "set in my ways" because I have discovered what really is true and real. Why would I deviate from that? No one forced this on me and I'm not forcing it on anyone else. I write with an open invitation to all who would believe, and I seek to help others find understanding and provide reasons why it is sensible to believe in Jesus.
    I don't even know how to describe how your statements were illogical or contradictory, suffice to say that you seem to go all over the place and do not seem to have any clarity in thought expressed in your words here. I'm not saying that to insult you, but simply to say, "I have NO clue what it is you're trying to say."
    As for me taking it further? You commented first...I replied. All I did was express that virtually nothing you said made sense because your very words seemed to jump all over the place. It has nothing to do with my desire to discuss the matter.

    @soldiers_sweetheart_09 - Ah, I see. Thanks for explaining it. :)
    So, if I may ask, where does this power and energy come from? (I so hope that didn't sound condescending, but I didn't know how else to ask without the obvious fact that I believe differently coming into play, too.)

  • Colorsofthenight

    Your entire argument was illogical to begin with and jumped around then you searched for God in the end because it isn't fair. I was explaining why it's not cause-effect and why people tend to misunderstand karma, like you asked. I gave examples because I'm not going to state something as absolute.  I'm going to give an example.     


    This is what I inferred:


    You know that karma is a cause-effect reaction.  If we stand out in the rain, we will get wet.


    You know that things happen for logical reasons but we don't always know why we got the reaction we did.  Jesus met a blind man and healed him. 


    When you deal with reactions, it makes perfect sense why that happened, but you never thought that that was going to happen because the event wasn't supposed to happen. 


    You were still, with your Jesus example, talking about karma like it comes around and goes around.  Jesus is the rain.  You noticed that sometimes bad things happen to good people, but it was relieved.  Cause-effect.  Good person - good result.  Bad person - bad result.  If the blind man were a dick, you wouldn't have been happy to see him healed.  They aren't clapping for the crackwhore. Jesus could say, crackwhore you can be part of society, but nobody wants that because she's a dirty crackwhore.  They want to see her punished because that's how karma works.  Well, they all function and have good jobs, and she doesn't and fucks all their husbands and gives them STDs.  You could go out on a limb here and say that she's a victim of society and that the wives aren't fulfilling their duties and that it's pop culture and the husband's fault for straying, but you won't because you want to see the crackwhore burn.  And the problem is the crackwhore.  If she wasn't there, nobody would be tempted but burning her at the stake is a little bit more than the onlookers deserve.  I'm going to put it that way.  She's not under your control and none of you are innocent.  Now, karma isn't working right for them. 


    I'm going to give you an example from my life.  I pay for my parents.  This is obvious.  But other people don't pay for theirs like I do, and they say that I don't when it is obvious that I do.  They are washed clean and "forgiven" for things they really shouldn't be forgiven for, even after their parents, and then I'm going to take their shame because I'm the bad one and then they take control of everything and make it worse.  The level of bullshit that my life manages to get to is really special.  I've had enough.  I say, I'm a slave in a free society.  I don't have any control over my life.  The problem is that if I'm direct about it then other people have to be direct, like everything else and they can't slither away in innocence.  Rules and reasons begin to happen.  It scares them.  That could happen to me.  No, it's her!  Yes, if you do bad things, bad things will happen to you and then we'll suffer together, but I'm so used to it, it doesn't bother me, and you then become even more angry because I'm the one who deserves to be punished.  What do you ever do wrong?  So I get a lot of bad karma, especially since I have to explain to them that nobody is innocent.  Then, they'll crawl away with my realizations and punish me more and more and more because I can't ascend above my sin.  If I even managed to do anything.  Sometimes, that's a crime in itself.  I'm just going to get a motherfucking t-shirt and carry around a book that explains things.  I'm sick of wasting my breath. 

  • NaitoOfNarnia

    @Colorsofthenight - I was mostly following along with you until you came to your personal example. Then you lost me with your how you expressed your thoughts.
    As for my post, I was plenty logical. Everyone else followed me perfectly. I referenced several sources that talk in detail about what karma is all about.

    Jesus said, specifically, that the blind man was not blind because of ANY sin done by him or his parents. He just simply was born blind. That was the case of his physical condition from birth. Karma says that things happen to people because of a particular cause. Jesus was saying that the man's blindness had NO cause. This has nothing to do with "what goes around comes around" because the man hadn't done anything to be made blind - heck, he wasn't even able to sin when he was born because he was too young to make a moral choice. Jesus healed the man so that there could be physical evidence of the reality of Jesus' power at that moment and so God could be recognized in that moment. Whatever sins that blind man had committed throughout his life, they had nothing to do with his blindness nor did they stop Jesus from healing him of his blindness. The entire point is that sins in this moment were irrelevant. Karma was pointless even as a simple, basic cause-effect explanation.

    So your entire example of the crackwhore doesn't even fit into this discussion because we're not talking about what someone has done right or wrong. We're talking about the fact that there are some things that have no particular cause. They were simply allowed to happen, such as this man's blindness.

    Now, I don't know what's confusing about that to you, but I don't know that I can make it any clearer. So I'll say it once more: this post has nothing to do with someone's sins. It has nothing to do with whether a person is good or bad. My referencing of what Jesus did is there to show that God is above the notion of karma. If you read my other two posts in this series, you'll hopefully see further what karma is not all there is. Karma does not explain everything in life nor can it ever hope to.

  • Colorsofthenight

    @NaitoOfNarnia - you want to know "reality?" It was karma that caused the man to go blind.  The karma of ignorance.  Had they known how to prevent blindness at birth, nobody would go blind, and they wouldn't have to deal with a blind man.  Jesus just knew how to magically cure him - that's almost as random as him going blind in the first place.  He didn't feel like sharing, so there will be more blind people from the same karma.  They could have simply killed him, but they didn't.  Thus, he is their sin and yes, can sin as well.  The whole reason he exists is because it keeps civilization from going completely Nazi, and we all become psychos about strength in its youngest and most brutal form. 


    Yes, his sins did have to do with his blindness, as most sins have a cause and that's why it's usually punished in a certain way.  He can't get a job, so he has to beg.  It turns out that beggars aren't allowed, so he had to befriend anyone he could to eat since suicide is a sin and he can't find anything to kill himself with and people see him every fucking time he tries to jump off of the cliff, and he's sick of being called an attention-whore.  He sells his services and crack.


    As to highligh another point, you think that you are too young to make a moral choice?  you are very wrong.  Ignorance is definitely a sin.  It's mostly the society that you are in.  In America, I can take the cookies or the CD without too much happening.  In other countries, even at 7 and not knowing that taking the cookie was wrong - and even being told I could, I'd be shot or missing a hand.  I paid for my parents not explaining things to me or lying, just like I paid for their income bracket (at various times) and their roles in society.  Yes, at a young age.


    That's fine, it's my fault that the sky turns dark at night, and I'm being taken care of, so don't worry.  I always use personal examples up because that's what people will go for.  No, I'm not like that, they'll say.  That's what I thought, but it turns out Sally, who listens, is.  I don't even know about the Sallys until they pop up, and I have to open up.  What do you want to know?  Nothing is personal anyway.  That is not going to be a valid argument.  I am indifferent to it. I'm as detached as I am to the crackwhore to my various situations. 

  • soldiers_sweetheart_09

    @NaitoOfNarnia - It comes from your will and concentration on the spell that you are doing at the time.

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